Wow… just wow. If you’ve seen Episode 414: The Grove, you know that by the end of the episode, Carol has to make one tough decision. Did you agree with her choice, or did you think there was another way to deal with the situation? Vote in our poll, and let us know what you would have done in the comments!
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Lizzie was UN balanced! She was gonna kill Judith. She was never gonna get it.
where is Judith now? I did not see either of them holding her at the end while they were walking down the tracks nor could I see her on the back of one of them? They put her down too?
I think when they were leaving I saw her on Tyreese’s back in a backpack, but her head was covered. I pretty sure that was her.
I was wondering, I look for a “papoose” but couldn’t tell.
She was in the baby backpack. Anyone notice the additional baby stuff like the diaper bag?
NOT OK. NOT OK. CAROL SHOULDNT HAVE DONE IT.
And Lizzie shouldn’t have killed her sister then planned on killing Judith. It’s a dog-eat-dog world. There’s no time for what is the “nicest” choice.
It had to be a hard decision, but don’t know what else could be done; don’t think they could have sent her out on her own. She didn’t seem to understand that walkers want to kill you, she actually wants to turn her sister into one. She wanted a friend, remember the walker she was playing with. There is no way it would have been safe to let her live, if she was bitten they would still have had to kill her if they came across her in order to survive. It was a sad thing though, don’t believe Lizzie could have been saved though!
She should have done it sooner. Carol should have been ready to let Lizzie go once she threatened her in the back yard (After Carol saved her life by killing her “friend”). It was pretty clear at that point that Lizzie was mentally headed in the wrong direction. She wants walkers as friends, and she doesn’t understand the difference between alive and undead.
That showed she did not “get it” and that she certainly was dangerous to herself. I think she could have suffocated Judith, during a walker attack, and it would be tragic, but would not have signed Lizzie’s death warrant. Watch the last episode of M*A*S*H for my argument.
Mind blowing episode!!! I would of done the same thing… No questions asked and no second thoughts!!
I think she did the right thing for everyone in the group but I don’t think I could have done it because I’m a mom myself…
Lizzy was just a kid.. She was confused.. Shooting her like that.. it’s just sick..
‘Just look at the flowers Lizzy’
Confused or not, she was dangerous.
True. As awful as it was, it had to have been done. At least it was quick and painless. Sure, she could’ve let Mika turn and let her get Lizzie, but that would’ve just been a sick way of prolonging the inevitable. They couldn’t trust Lizzie. They couldn’t rehabilitate her. It was a tough decision, but I think that Carol made the right one. If I remember correctly, after Lizzie killed Mika, she said something along the lines of “I was just about to do it to Judith too.” So…
She never would have let Mika turn and get Lizzie. Carol knows what it’s like to see the people she loves turn into walkers. This episode brought me back to when the barn was opened. Heartbreaking, but at the same time, almost inevitable. But you’re right, no way Carol could have let her live after this. You could see this coming for a while now, and it was only a matter of time before she snapped.
Exactly. Carol is not a heartless, malicious sicko. Sure, she does the hard things that need to be done, but she does them as humanely as the situation allows her to. So having Mika reanimate to eat Lizzie would’ve been completely out of character. Shooting her like that was the only way it could’ve been done without disrespecting the magnitude of what she had to do.
Yea she was gonna off the baby next
she was mentally ill remember the rats and the rabbit, serial killer in training
It was sad, but she had already killed one child and was going to kill Judith. The very fact that back in the prison she had been feeding the walkers shows that she had gone around some bend that I don’t think you can come back from. She was dangerous and although she was a kid she was going to keep on killing. If the walkers got to her they would still have had to kill her in the end, I think it was better this way; she never saw it coming.
The thing that would have been really alarming to me, had I been in Carol’s position, was when Lizzie was caught playing tag with the walker in the back yard of the house they were staying. Carol destroyed the walker, and Lizzie said to her, “what if I killed you?” (In a very threatening manner) That right there would have been the moment I started wondering if she’s better off dead…
The fact that she’s a child only makes the situation more dangerous. She’s too ignorant to know what is happening when she kills her sister.
also that she is just acting.
not confused – sick in the head. lol
You are a bleeding heart liberal to the end eh?
Dat Bitch was CRAZY!
Lizzie was a loose cannon and when the time came that they finally caught up to the rest of group, she would have been a major risk/threat. She already tried to smother Judith and this had been coming for a long time with the feeding the walkers rats and naming them.
Correct me if im wrong but was i the only one who saw 3 graves? One of which had judith’s shoes dangling from the cross…. and we did not see judith at the end of that episode in carol’s or tyrese’ arms…
Judith was in baby backpack. Not Judith’s shoes dangling on the cross. They were there already. Showed it briefly when they were first coming up to house.
Phew, thanks lol
I had that question as well.
We are so past this, dude! Two other sections on this site full of comments, regarding the graves & Judith in a sack on someone’s back!
When they went to the house in the beginning, the grave and shoes were there already from a baby that lived there before
Don’t worry, in Talking Dead, they said Judith was in Tyreese’s baby backpack. She’s safe
That was confusing to me also, I thought there were 3 graves. I wondered who was in the 3rd one, but just figured it was someone from before. I think Judith was in the backpack, although I couldn’t see her head I think she is in the backpack on Tyreese.
Really Romy??? Its the freakin apocalypse. Lizzie had no clue and was not going to develop one. Will be interesting watching Carol deal with it though.
She should have let Meeka turn and get her!!
I know some comments are made all in good fun & I laughed here…but seriously, there was no ethical way to deal with Lizzie. To let Mika turn & take her out would be the least ethical… something akin to what The Governor did with Milton & Andrea.
Probably would still have to deal with a freshly turned Lizzie, unless Carol and Tyreese think its all in good fun to kill a child and take care of a baby.
When I first saw Lizzie with bloody hands and the realization of what she had done, I knew she had to die. I didn’t know if Carol would be strong enough or if Tyreese would let her. But it was a very difficult thing to do and there was no other reasonable option. This was a very dark and ominous episode. Sheesh
GIVEN THAT THIS IS AN APOCALYPSE….I saw no other way. To let her go by herself is to sentence her to walker death. To confine her somewhere by herself would be to subject her to a status lower than an animal & would be torturous. To keep her around like nothing ever happened would be to put their lives in a greater risk. What else could be done?
And Carol’s self doubt deepens.
I don’t think she has doubts about what she’s done. I think she simply regrets that it HAS to be done.
Agree, what else could be done, as stated in the comics, pre apocalypse she would of had to have years of therapy just to come to terms with what she had done. there is no infrastructure to deal with her during the apocalypse, however grim there was no other choice.
Do you think the same should have happened to Carl when he killed that unarmed boy ?
What unarmed boy? Not the one Hershel told Rick he gunned down in cold blood (?)
The boy that was surrendering his weapon. I think the only boy Carl has killed so far on the show . I said unarmed which was incorrect . The kid Carl murdered.
Way I feel about that is that if someone told me to drop my weapon, it would hit the ground. I wouldn’t be trying to extend that weapon in close range with it still aiming somewhat at the target. I feel Carl was justified in what he did & it’s one thing I hated hearing Hershel tell Rick the way he did. Carl says he did what he had to do & he was thinking about the walker that came back to get Dale, Andrew, & The Gov. if I remember correctly. I’ll go with that.
What about you?
I know I wouldn’t have killed Carl. Honestly I would have done what Rick did and take his gun and let him be a kid .
I’m glad we talked about this you made me look at that situation in a different light.
Sadly, Hershel never got it but I think Rick did.
i knew it was coming i read the comics so seen that coming a lot time ago but still no matter what even that its not the same world anymore and you cant get her the help she would need to fix whats broken in her and really whats to say it would help if they had someone to help. Really it was for the greater good in the long run they couldn’t have her with more people and they couldn’t fall asleep around her even turn their back to her sad yes feel bad for Carol for doing it but she new what had to be done.
Lizzie was never a character in the comic, and Carol would be dead by now. Your statement makes no sense.
Shes basing her conclusion on the boys in the comics so it does make sense when you piece little things together you can make guesses like that.
The girls are the shows Dixon twins you could tell weeks ago that’s where they was going with that
It makes perfect sense. In the comics they were two boys, twin brothers. 1 was extremely disturbed, the other was kind and too innocent. The disturbed one kills his younger brother, Carl sees or finds out and then kills the disturbed one. They changed some details, but the writing was on the wall. I actually think it was even more powerful and tragic that they changed it to two little girls.
Open mouth, insert foot.
It had to happen. I was surprised to see Carol “take care of it” because of her motherly maternal instincts. I didn’t think she could do it. Earlier in the episode (The Grove) It appeared she thought about “taking care of it” but couldn’t do it.
Now, myself….
I would have used Lizzy as a martyr or as bait to escape the walkers if need be. Therefore,
ONE; the walkers killed her (my conscience is clear),
TWO; she wanted to make friends with the walkers, well, here’s your chance, good luck with that.
THREE, where’s Carl when you need him? He would of taken care of it and brought home venison.
Great episode!! Powerful and true to the times. Great work!
Oh God. That third point was hilarious.
Yeah that is pretty funny. Carl is a bad ass
…and brought home venison! bahahaha!
If the other choice was letting her go in her own, then yes, this was the best way. Better die that way than die a walker.
Not the moral thing, but it was the logical thing. You could see this coming for a while now. Lizzie became unstable right after her father died. It was a matter of time before she snapped.
If it is the logical thing, how is it not the moral thing? What is more moral? With what they have available, the best psychiatric care. That said how much would it suck if terminus had a head Shrinker?
Logical because she’s obviously dangerous and she can’t be helped at this point. When you go so far as to kill your own sister, assuming she’ll come back and be the same, you’re lost. Immoral because Carol is killing a little girl, whom she cared for and who looked at her like a mother.
There are different ways of looking at morality. But one gauge is the most good for the most people. Outcome based, so to speak. And others that say there are some things that should never be done.
For me, moral differs with situation. It’s not moral to kill a pet, but if that pet was injured in some way & suffering with no chance at a decent life, I’m putting the pet down. Immoral would be to let it suffer.
In her own right, Lizzie was suffering, she obviously believed that walkers weren’t dangerous. She wasn’t right in the head, she was killing animals for fun, playing with the walkers, making friends out of them, feeding them, she was sick, in both a clinical and sadistic kind of way. Eventually she was going to get herself hurt, scratched or bitten, and what if she hadn’t told Carol or Tyreese because she thought it was “normal”?
Lizzy was a crazy little kid. She had to go.
There were certainly crazier things that could have been done, but this show is on cable…
based on the cable options…they did the best writing for this part…
I myself, would have given her wish…and fed her to the walkers…
This was no where as bad as the Infanticide on Game of Thrones
OMG i literally felt sick for days after that… i know its movie magic but just the thought of it was really sickening to me and reminded me of The Omen 3 where the anti christ commands the death of every baby born on that certain day. You just opened a can of worms for me, thanks!! 😛 jk
Interesting how they did this. As compared to the similar story from the comic.
“Once, a long time ago, i made a rule…… I think maybe its time to finally stick to it.
YOU KILL AND YOU DIE.” – Rick Grimes
One of my favorite quotes was from The Gov: “You kill or you die.. or you die & you kill.”
FUCKING MORISSEY! I love that one too.
Carol has made consistently bad decisions:
She has taken initiative on non-immediate problems without seeking council, that turned out to cause more problems than it solved: (try’s to stop the sickness which has no ultimate effect other than distancing her from a potential ally)
Aside from Carl, she is the only person on the ‘good team’ to kill without direct threat, based on a ‘what if’ scenario.
Instead of deciding to aid those that were sick, she amputates them, even though they had some proof of being a benefit to the group.
Fails to recognize that the point of staying in a group is not only self preservation, but the preservation of a humanity, and thus the children.
She chooses the wrong child to support, which contributes to the final outcome.
Carol may be a type of Typhoid Mary, literally, due to the nature of how she had contact with the children before, during and after the localized epidemic.
Given a bit of self realization (which all of the other characters seem to be doing), it may have been possible to keep Mika and let Lizzie go.
at the end of the show & they are walking down the railroad tracks where is Judith?
Think she was the bundle on Tyreese’s back in the backpack.
I agree that there was no other way to handle the situation, Carol had already tried to make Lizzie see what the walkers were and it seems that she was too far gone to reason with. I think that is the only thing to be done, no one would have been able to sleep with her around and they had to think about the baby.
I just hate that there dead now. It sucks. But it had to be done. there was really no other way. Its because back at the prison she convince herself that they were her “friends” and that’s how she dealt with all the craziness. The zombie apocalypse fuck everyone up. physically, emotionally and mentally. Lizzie was just a victim of it. RIP Lizzie and Meeka.
Gotta love the angle of the question, like there’s some sort of great debate or controversy with what happened.
And then the results are 96/4 in favor of Carol.
I mean Carl wasn’t around to handle it inside joke you’ll get it if you read the comic
si, hizo lo correcto, el solo hecho de pensar en revivir lo que le paso con la hija, ademas esta niña ya estaba mal y no aceptaba la realidad, fue un capitulo muy crudo pero fue la decisión
correcta
there was no other way….they wouldn’t be able to trust her ever, especially not with Judith. She was a pshycopath.
Sad thing is all of you guys posting have probably never read the comics, if you had you would already know why this was put into the show. It was included to show that there is no survival for those who are too gentle and there is no survival for those who are naive. Lizzy was naive in her belief that the walkers were just different, and not a danger, and her sisters gentle nature is what got them both killed. To be honest it was mostly Carols fault for not seeing the naivety in Lizzy earlier
Carol was too busy trying to change the one who needed the least change….. Mika knew the walkers were a danger, and knew how to defend herself, but she couldn’t bring herself to harm another human being, if she were able to do that she could have taken Lizzie out, but if carol had been working harder with Lizzies naivety instead of Mikas gentle nature they would both still be alive.
They all start out naive. They had to learn. Case in point = Rick when he was coming out of a coma. Although Mika was the very gentle-natured child, that doesn’t necessarily mean she could have held her own up against Lizzie. Lizzie was not naive, if you ask me, she was mentally ill & progressively so. No way is Carol to blame for that.
It was either that or set her loose to fend for herself
And if she hooks up with other survivors? How do you leave this ticking time bomb?
she made a difficult yet necessary decision…there are no mental health professionals in the apocalypse….no medications to give to Lizzy
There was no way the mother in carol was going to let anyone else take out Lizzie. It had to be done for their safety. Though it was awful the little brat killed her sweet lil sister to prove a point should’ve killed herself
Her smart sister wouldnt let her. 🙁
Just messing herself up in the head. But u need to do what u need to keep alive.
I mean come on. She was about t kill Judith. Psycho is the only word to describe her. That last thing an apocalyptic world needs is a serial killer walking around
I don’t know about most people, but I’m not willing to be in a group with someone that calls flesh-eating-undead-creatures “friend.” Just sayin’….
While it was perhaps the correct thing to do. Am I the only one wondering why after the events of the past few days before killing her sister did they leave 2 pre-teens and a baby alone together? When you take into account the fact that meeka was unable to kill the deer the day before and the way Carol was acting about having to do what they had to, to survive, she would have been out hunting with Carol not Tyrese
I caught that right off the bat! It unnerved me. The way I deal with it is that Carol & Tyreese just didn’t realize just how far gone Lizzie was.
I would have let mica come back put her in a room with her and let them play and left them there together. Let someone else come along and take care of the rest, because although she killed her sister she is a sick little girl mentally and it would’ve been devastating to just shoot her.
Awesome episode though 😉 I believe one of the best yet
I thought this was the best episode this season. Both Carol and Tyresse are amazing actors…
What was the point of keeping her alive if she coudln’t be around anyone
Daryl: You’ve got some balls for a Chinaman.
Glenn: I’m Korean.
Daryl: Whatever.
As soon as I saw that Lizzie had killed Mika, I said they have to kill Lizzie. So, yes I agree with what Carol did. If killing her sister wasn’t enough, she said she was getting ready to kill Judith.
Best episode this season. Both the book and the show are ultimately (imho) about how morality adapts to meet the survival needs of the apocalypse. This is similar to Rick killing Shane, though more brutal because Lizzy (or Ben, if you will) was a kid. Either way, someone had to make a move that would have been absolutely wrong in our world today.
These stories work best when they make you put down the popcorn and really think about life and this was a fantastic story. Melissa McBride is a FANTASTIC actress. Chad Coleman was good as were the girls. I know sometimes people (myself included) comment that the show’s pace is a little slow, but when they slow down for something like this (or last season’s “Clear”) I think they really do fantastic work.
Lizzie was right within her own mind. If everyone had the mind of hers, no on would have the deep fears of lost and sadness as everyone progresses so violently through.
Oh what a great comment you have; keep snorting the flowers luke.
Thank You, Luke I Will.
Competing with Lizzie, are ya Luke? lol
It should’ve been Tyrese’s hammer.
At first I thought Carol and Tyreese should have brought Judith inside and left Lizzie with Mika, she wanted to see her come back and she needed to learn a lesson. But in the end, it would have taught her a lesson before she was ripped apart and it would have just been to brutal of Carol and Tyreese to do that to a child, no matter how messed up she was. She would have suffered terribly and that would have left alot of fans uneasy I think. I think Carol did the right thing putting her down.
to me she made the right decision……lizzie wasnt smart enough to know that the walkers were not friends…….but flesh-eating machines that were designed to kill……i was kind of sad of what happened to meeka that was some kind of ugly. I would not have fallen asleep with lizzie around and if i did i would be sleep with both eyes open and a meat cleaver i wouldnt be going out like that……poor meeka. Maybe in the next episodes to come meeka will rise from the dead and get her revenge……
Though it was horribly dark, I agree that Carol did the “best” thing. The only alternative I could come up with was that they could’ve let Lizzy get bitten by a walker but not mauled to death. Since Lizzy believed that coming back as a zombie was just fine, they could just let her continue to believe that until she died. Yes, it’s deceptive, but not necessarily any worse than saying “look at the flowers” and blowing her brains out.
Hell, just let her play with her zombie friends. Problem solved.
I would have taken her along. Bound her up when needed if so be, but definitively not killed her. It was a kid. Would have kept working on her and of course kept her under strict guard.
Besides only being a kid, she also was the responsibility of the elders. Carol even swore to protect her like her own on their fathers death bed. Yes, she was surely crazy, but I’d rather walk her like a dog in a leash then put her down.
I like the Carol character. It is a strong persona portrayed with supreme acting but I find some of her actions rather questionable. Such a thing as trying to get a small kid to “brain-kill” her own father? If she was messed up before, that surely would not help much.