We’ve had one of our more involved discussions around this week’s episode (both in our recap/discussion post and on Twitter). The issue at hand is, of course, Rick telling Carol that she has to leave the group. One of the better theories I’ve seen put forth is that Rick was subtly giving Carol her own version of his “Three Questions” test throughout the episode. And certainly he’s kind of gauging her emotional detachment. I think where you fall on this depends on how much you think Rick has changed since his mental breakdown. Anyway, what do you think? Let’s vote![yop_poll id=”2″]
She’ll be back
Rick stepped down and didn’t want to be a leader. So he doesn’t have the right now to make such a radical decision for the entire group. I’m not sure I entirely agree with what Carol did, because if she did feel justified why didn’t she take responsibility when the bodies were found and say,” Yeah I did it – I had to protect the group.”? She didn’t take responsibility until after Rick figured out she did it and approached her. But even so Rick should have taken it to the Council. That is why there is a Council. To make such a huge decision to throw someone out shouldn’t have been made by one person. Plus Carol is a huge asset to the group and they need everyone they have who isn’t sick right now. Sorry Rick, the #Ricktatorship is over.
I believe the Council should have decided. Carol, Daryl and Mashon are the 3 strongest people remaining in the group. Rick is really, at this point, unable to make decisions. I think he was considering the safety of his kids. Tyreese is a bull in a China Shop and can’t be depended on for any help, may even end up causing some to die when he hesitates. If he (Tyreese), when told, couldn’t accept the councils decision, then he should have been given the “car”. Even though Tyreese swore he’d kill the person that killed Karen, I think if he’d say he’d forget it for the good of the group as a whole, I’d believe him because he has proven himself to be a very truthful person. I say somehow bring Carol back!!!
Totally AGREED!!!!!!!! Rick stepped down, so someone had to stepped up. As we can see, those we’re mainly Daryl and Carol. With the back up of the decisons taken by all what the Council. But the ones taking the actions, in different fields, we can realize in the 1st episode of the 4th season that are mainly Daryl and Carol. We can even see a scene where Rick is informed that the Council is going to reunite (I think that the issue was already the threat of the outcome of the flu, so a very important matter for all the group), and Rick refuses to go. If It was Carol, I also think she could have waited a little more before making that such a call, but we saw how deadly that flu was at the beggining, and perhaps she realized there was no time for more reunions before the mates turned walkers begin to get wild and loose all over the prison. Maybe someone had to make such call, like Rick has already had to, and there was no more time left for reunions. But if someone had to do something about Carol’s decison, the last one to have the right to do such thing as taking a team’s mate to the road and leave it behind, was Rick. The man even didn’t attended the Council reunions, not even for his kids sake and protection (it was the deadly flu…), and prefered to take care of the pigs and crops, and then takes the opportunity, when the mainly deciders were unabled to reunite in the Council, because they were either occupied in treating or burying the dead, or away of the prison, out on the mission to bring the meds.
Rick took Carol on the supposed 2-team mission in an act of premeditation, it’s what I think. The ones who could stop him were either in the prison but locked, sick or with the sick, or out of the prison. He grabbed the oppurtunity. He knew Daryl, Tyreese or perhaps Hershel would disa gree so let’s go, Carol! He was deciding what to do with her on the way but he left the prison with the intention of probably do something to Carol outhere. We can see one scene in which he’s preparing the 2-team mission, and cheking the supplies, with a kinda of misterious and strange expression but at the same time determined. it seems he was seeing if she had enough supplies to be on her own for a while. Rick is no more leader material, is kinda The Governor. Tricky moves, double standards and Ricktatorship. If I was in Daryl boots, I would flipp out! They are now great bros but is the second time Rick left someone Daryl’s loved behind. “1st strike, shame on Rick, 2nd strike, shame on me”, I think are gonna be Daryl’s feelings !!!
Well he probs did the best thing as if he let her go back and tyreese found out he would off killed her and also noone would want her there so he probs has done her more of a favor to let her go and as he said find a new group start fresh……
Still wasn’t his decision to make.
and who is on this magic counsel you seek?
Hershell. He’s been a one-man council for Rick more than once.
My thoughts exactly. He was trying to protect his family but also knew that Tyrese would kill Carol if she went back to the prison. But she will be back, hey now Stookey has someone to hang with!
Carol was wrong by killing Karen and David. They only got sick after patrick got sick and turned in Cell Block D. Karen and David were in isolation in Death Row to prevent them from infecting anyone else or turning while in with the population and causing another walker attack. If she thought she was right she should have gone to the council and asked for a vote. She went behind everyones back and MURDERED two sick people. While Rick was correct that Carol needed to be banished/punished I don’t feel he did it the right way. He was right in saying if we go back and tell everyone Tyrese will kill you. The best way to handle it would have been to go to the council and tell them in secret what he discovered and let them decide. But they don’t live in a perfect world. Glenn and Sasha are both sick in quarantine, Hershel is there with them and after the doctor coughed all over him I’m sure he has one foot in the grave too. Daryl is on the run to the vet college and that only leaves Carol. There really was no council to go to. As far as bringing her back to the prison and wait for the council to get better and make a vote, who knows how many sick people Carol would kill by then. Maybe, they should have found a secure house for Carol to wait in until he could talk to the council and decide her fate then. So in summation, Rick was right but wrong at the same time while Carol was just flat out wrong.
literally one foot. lol
Instead of a secure house, they could just lock her up in an empty cell.
Thought about that. Problem is that tyrese would know where to find her and she wouldn’t be able to get away.
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t think a set of bars would have been much help against Tyreese. I know Carol’s gonna be back in the picture, so this is really gonna get interesting!
I don’t agree with what Carol did, but I also don’t agree with Rick’s one-man judgment show singlehandedly voting her off the island. He should have made her sit in a trial before the council. Why is it so hard for them to keep law and order alive? We lived that way for thousands of years before zombies!
We did not have dead people eating live people back then either.
Rick didn’t tell her she had to go…he told her how people would react and that he wouldn’t trust her with his kids. If Carol believed in what she did, she should have told him she would tell the group and see how they felt. Another awesome episode!!!
Carol chose not to return to the group. She will hook up with the Governor. THe abused woman has become the abuser.
Carol did the right thing. Rick is the one you can’t trust: Is he a leader or a farmer? Is he seeing ghosts? Is he trading people with the Governor? Is he punching people? He’s scattered and unreliable and delusional. If the events shown were real, he would not be a leader because nobody would trust him.
Carol has become an abuser. She tells children to keep secrets from their parents. She says “I can’t risk it” in reference to not teaching the children about weapons use. SHE can’t risk it? Those aren’t HER children. Rick gave the gun back to his son AFTER his son went to him and told him what Carol was doing. Carl showed good judgement, Carol didn’t.
Think about the fact that these are parents who came from Woodbury. They haven’t been exposed to reality like Carol has. These parents have been sheltered away from danger & so have the children. I see Carol as giving them lessons on survival. A lot of people think that Carol has lost her feelings but I think deep down inside she truly cares. She can’t let emotions get in the way of survival, which is one reason why she’s hardened herself to the thought of Sophia. She wanted to teach these kids so that they could defend themselves and LIVE.
She should have spoken to Rick and the parents about what she “wanted”. It is NOT her place to decide how other people raise their children.
I agree with that to some extent but I don’t believe that farmer Rick would have made a better decision than shooter Rick and Carol’s smart enough to realize that. And these parents would have held to their traditional parental beliefs/feelings, which, if you ask me, is out the door.
Carl started learning gun tactics, etc…the skills to survive and he’s still with us. Sophia didn’t get that, now she’s dead.
You keep making assumptions about what the childrens’ parents believe/think and would/would not do. Seems to me you have a personal issue that is coloring your judgement.
I don’t know exactly what these parents believe/think and would/would not do. All I know is that Woodbury looked like Mayberry at one time, with even the view of danger blocked. I can imagine that the parents would balk at the idea of their kids handling weapons and being taught how to use them. Therefore, Carol wanted to arm them with knowledge but keep it secret because she would be met with resistance & probably prevented from being around the kids.
I don’t know what you’re trying to imply, regarding the personal issue thing…we are all entitled to an OPINION and they’re never right or wrong until they become facts. If you don’t understand that, then you have a personal issue.
You can post all over this site about Carol being an “abuser” and there will be a larger number of fans that disagree with you, evident in the poll above.
The Woodburyans lived in a sort of fairy tail and are now facing the real zombie apocalipse. Carol was preventing those kids from dying, like Sophia. She knows their parents don’t know the reality as she is in fact, Woodburyans parents we’re giving their sons candys and sodas, while Team Prison had to gear up their kids like adults. Rick had to give back the gun to Carl, even knowing he’s becoming instable, dangerous and very addicted to the trigger. But as a parent he realized it was even more dangerous to keep Carl unarmed. Carol was doing the same, for kids whose parents weren’t alerted to the how dangerous the world has become outhere, reality that Rick realizes.
I think you guys are looking at this decision too much from the perspective of a viewer with preconceived expectations. Look at it from Rick’s perspective and take into account what he prefaced his decision with after talking to Carol. If Daryl’s group didn’t make it back, what chance does the prison group have? That’s the entire muscle of the group gone. Glenn and just about everyone else back at the prison is (seemingly) terminally ill and without the antibiotics, I would say their collective geese are probably thoroughly cooked. If Rick and his family somehow make it out and without contracting the sickness, I think he is entirely justified in not trusting Carol back out on the road. Not to mention she alone probably has just as good a chance of survival as anyone else should the survivors become that fractured. On the other hand, if they DO make it back, what would stop Tyreese from killing her? Rick feels morally obligated to inform everyone (as he should). What kind of ramifications or divide will he create by bringing her back? What would that do to morale in a group already dying of disease? I think he figured his decision would both save Carol’s life as well as avoid unnecessary confrontation at the prison. He also knows Carol is tough as nails and he gives her a more than fair chance with a fully stocked vehicle. Now whether this was the right decision is still to be seen after Rick gets back and if/when we see Carol again.
I love rick but what he did was not right. she was doing the right thing protecting the group that doesn’t have it and the rest of them that do have it to put them out of there mercerise and it doesn’t spread either . also she said she would do anything for the group doesn’t that mean anything. like I said I love rick I think he’s really good and I would hate to see anything happen to him but I think he is getting weaker with his decisions and that he is making .
The council is nothing, but a false sense of normalcy. This is the walking dead, and as soon as people start to feel like there is a society, that is when they will start to die. Carol made the right decision and so did Rick. Its all about can you survive.
It was hard for me to decide which way to vote because I think they were both right in their actions but they both went about it the wrong way.
Carole instituted euthanasia in their little population – opening a dangerous Pandora’s Box, imho. Should have kept Karen and David isolated and put them out of their misery as soon as they turned (like she did with the dad of the two little girls). Her killing them (a decision that was not hers to make) did not stop the disease from spreading.
Compare her actions with Hershel’s.
Great story twist- perhaps we will get glimpses of Carole’s life as she tries to survive – there needs to be some action outside the prison – this was a brilliant segue to accomplish that.
I’d like to see Carole come to an emotional balance…between uber-soft (before the apocalypse) and uber-hard (at present). She’s a bit too callous right now.
i think rick is so stuped to leavecarl in the dust in macheals word how roud from full house
i am pissed! carol is one of my favs if she doesnt make a huge return ill be so upset. hopefully we see her aqain ans shes with morgan or abe
I don’t believe Carol killed Karen and David I believe she saw who killed them and she took the bodies outside and burned them to cover up any evidence of the real killer…I think Lizzie killed them…. she’s crazy!
I still haven’t ruled Carl out as at least helping her.
Na, I don’t think it was Lizzie. She’s thinking that walkers are just another form of us, like a child becoming an adult. I think that she was faking sickness to get into quarantine so that she can see a transformation. And don’t forget that she was upset when Nick, the walker at the fence, was taken out. This would also point the finger at her feeding the walkers rats at the fence, IMO. So I don’t believe she’d see Karen and David as enough threat to kill them for fear that they’d turn, because right now, walkers aren’t a threat to Lizzie; they are another form of us.
I almost cried when Carol left!! Rick has to understand that she lost both her daughter and her husband!! He made it worse by shooting Sophia right in front of her. She just wanted to protect the camp, and Rick did not see it that way. Btw.. does anyone else think that they purposefully made Karen and Tyreese fall in love so they could kill her and it would be “shocking”?
So do you think Rick shouldn’t have shot Sophia? What would he have done otherwise? Tie her up and do nothing with her? Rick saw Carol as a threat, and took matters onto his own hands. Also, they definitely made Tyreese and Karen fall in love on purpose. It’s called “writing to develop characters”.
Rick is a double faced prick, who betrays even his best and most loyal friend, Daryl. From times to times decides to snapp and do some heavy crazy shit. Of course someone had to kill Sophia. he did it, ok by me. But he’s lost and crazy, deceitfull, having double standards and back crossing even those who support him when he ocasionally goes to that very very dark place. He’s the one to consider the major threat, not Carol.
When has Rick betrayed Daryl? Also, Rick obviously hasn’t been the best man or leader, but he hasn’t killed 2 innocent people of his own group “just to be safe”. We also have to remember that Carl told him about her teaching the kids how to use knives. Carol has been hardened for sure, and Rick can now see that she is no longer safe to be around people.
Hummm, for example right in the end of ep 4, when he decided to leave in the fucking middle of nowhere the lady very “friend friend” of daryl, without even telling him. She and others could say the same about him. He nearly killed Glenn in an psycothic episode in 3th season. Did they kicked out throught the prison gates? Nope. They dealed with it, waited, he was in an out maniac episodes, they took it in and waited. He was talking to a dead phone, oh please. Rick is the one they should fear.
That was Rick then, while he was their leader. And he’s changed now, he’s not the same man that he was right after Lori died. Butd that’s irrelevant to whether or not Carol should have been left behind. You have to agree that Carol was in the wrong by killing Karen and David, and that she is dangerous now. Also, by leaving her behind, he is also protecting her from Tyreese, who would not see the logic in her reasoning and very likely hurt her. And he didn’t even just abandon her! He gave her a van, supplies, and weapons. Carol is just fine, and I’m sure we will se her again soon. I’m calling it now!
I just had a hard time in a way dealing with his decision, because throughout the series hes made bad decisions, and has done wrong himself. Sure he didn’t intentionally kill someone that wasnt yet a threat, but if you add up all the things he’s done wrong, and the times that hes cracked up and lost it id say hes just as wrong. How much of a threat was he when he went off the deep end?
Carol chose not to return to the group. She had been testing Rick, just as he had been testing her. Carol will hook up with the Governor. Carol is an abuser now.
Constance; can you stop repeting all over this forums the same line till exaustion “Carol is an abuser now!” People can answer to you back: Rick-the-Prick is a mad man now. Don’t understand? Other forms to say the same: insane; crazy; wacko; delusional; off the trails; looney; etc; etc. You made already your point of view, like another person here was saying (maybe Bastet). The majority of fans has an opion made about Rick, his progressavely instable behavior and it’s not the same you have! Learn to deal with it, once and for all. Preaching around this site and others won’t convert people to your cause. End of debate. I won’t answer back. Just an outflow, I was kinda tired of seeing your comments, trying to convert people, that Rick is a real saint, he only had some problems due to his wife’s death. ohhh, bullshit. End of discussion.
You have serious emotional problems. I haven’t posted for weeks. Your “outflow” is nonlinear, irrational, etc. I will be trying to block you. I only opened your “response” by accident while cleaning out my emails. Get help.
Please do block. For you everyone has emotional issues, you saiid that to Bastet, to me and probably to bubch of other people who disagree with you. Please do bleock me, Please!
i just want to know how Daryl is going to take the news
I don’t think he is going to take it very good. That’s the second time Rick has left somebody he loved.
Well this how i think Daryl is going to take the news the is going to get back to the prison Rick is going to tell him.Daryl is going to go out looking for Carol.daryl will find her bring her back to the prison and try to work things out with rick
Who knows Rick could have been trying to protect Carol i am just saying Tyreese would have killed carol if she was still at the prison you seen how he reacted he wanted to kill who ever did it so as soon as her found out it was here he would of killed her so rick might have been doing the bright thing
For those that are comparing Carol’s killings to Rick’s (Shane, Tomas, the guys at the bar in S2)…this is not a fair comparison, IMO. The difference is INTENT.
For those who voted “No way. Carol was doing the right thing”… would you feel the same if the first two people weren’t Karen and David, but let’s say, Maggie and Carl? Or Daryl and baby Judith? Try replacing the two killed with any other two, from the core group only (!), and see how you feel.
I’m sure you’re only voting that way because we weren’t attached to Karen and David, they were newcomers. BUT you have to look at it from the prison group’s perspective… Karen was someone to Ty and David probably had his friends, too.
Hmmm….what if it was Daryl that took Karen & David out? I bet there wouldn’t even be a debate about right or wrong. Funny how that works!
Honestly & personally, I didn’t give any thought as to who the murdered were. I did feel for Tyreese because one was Karen, but I voted based on the act in itself. If the two killed were characters that I was more attached to, it would have been more dramatic for me, that’s all.
when will sunday be here
Oh, the controversy! I see both sides of this issue. Not many episodes have ever really focused on Carol before. She’s changed drastically since season 1, as many of the characters have. This is kind of a new side to her, but I see where she’s coming from. Like Rick, she just wants to protect the group. Unlike Rick, she will take any means necessary to do that. After everything she’s been through, she knows they all need to be up at arms all the time. She thinks she’s being precautious and taking a necessary risk. She figures if it will stop the illness from spreading, it will have been worth it.
Unfortunately, they KNEW that all of Block D, along with everyone who ran in to help fight, had potentially been exposed already. Others were bound to show signs of the illness– It would have spread, regardless. And it did. (And what if it hadn’t been Karen and David who first showed symptoms? What if it had been Glenn?) I see WHY she took the risk, but considering the inevitability of the situation, it wasn’t worth it. That’s the frustrating part of her decision. But for Carol, she knew what was at stake, so kudos for that at least. Her way may not have been right per se, but she tried to do something preventative. It was a matter of two lives vs. countless others. Since it didn’t work out, two extra people are now dead.
As for Rick sending her off, I see why he did that as well. Carol didn’t seem too worried. Surprised, but not worried. I think she’ll be okay. Rick knows she can handle herself, but with an angry, unstable Tyreese loose back in the prison, he thinks Carol will have better luck outside. He still cares about her despite how he doesn’t agree with what she did. I think his decision is more protection than it is punishment, although it serves as both. He’s sort of made the same move as Carol by doing something precautionary for the group whether something will come of it or not. There’s definitely a parallel between what these characters do to protect the group. For Carol, it was killing two sick, contagious people. For Rick, it was sending Carol, a now-murderer, away to fend for herself. They both see threats to the group and want to take measures to prevent them, no matter the risk.
So that’s my two cents. I don’t really pick a side. What’s done is done. Rick and Carol are just two people trying to do the right thing in a world where morality, humanity, and survival are all in question.
Carol comes from a different place than the others. she was physically and mentally oppressed by an abusive husband, then after finally becoming free from him she loses her daughter to the zombies. I can absolutely understand her doing what she did. Was it right, perhaps not, but I don’t think there should have been such a quick decision made to leave her out alone.
Carol did no more or less than Rick has had to do in the past to protect the majority. Double standards seem to apply here.