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The Walking Dead Issue #164 Discussion

THE WALKING DEAD issue #164 is out NOW! Alexandria is overrun and Negan and Rick are in trouble! Read the issue and let us know what you thought down below. We’ll be awarding our favorite comment with a signed issue of THE WALKING DEAD #164 Image 25th Anniversary homage variant AS WELL as the INVINCIBLE #133 homage variant AS WELL as the OUTCAST BY KIRMAN & AZACETA #25 homage variant! BANANAS! And we’ll have an INVINCIBLE discussion post on and an OUTCAST discussion post on that will ALSO have those prizes! What a month!

PREVIOUSLY: The Whisperers unleashed a horde of walkers on Alexandria, the likes of which none of the residents had ever seen. The walkers have breeched the walls, and now everyone must fight for survival. Meanwhile, the Saviors bide their time, observing the carnage from a safe distance.


  1. seanmathews1 February 15, 2017 at 8:29 am - Reply

    Finkle is Einhorn. Rick is Negan, and both are Shane. They are all one of the same and this issue was great! Even better because I forgot all about it releasing today! I really hope Negan’s change is for good. I also really hope Rick starts to forgive. The two make a good team. I’ve really enjoyed Negan’s transformation. I guess he realizes Rick gave mercy instead of killing him. Hard to swallow. The thinning of the herd is interesting enough, but it feels like there isn’t a lot on the line. I imagine the Saviors will be the game changer. Wonderful story arc!

    • sliusarek February 16, 2017 at 7:41 am - Reply

      If you’re interested, do read this whole discussion. I’ve wrote some thoughts about why Negan did change for good while in jail. 🙂 Also, I think Rick starts to forgive him. I mean, before Rick was disgusted to even look at Negan and now he honestly answers him on the question about “the worst thing”.

      Rick is wrong about one thing right now – their ship has NOT sailed. 🙂 Of course, Maggie can sink it all…

  2. clarson February 15, 2017 at 8:41 am - Reply

    Do these guys even watch the show? Tie a cable between two horses and run. Massive hoard gone!

    • Neutral-Grey February 15, 2017 at 8:46 am - Reply

      That… wouldn’t work at all. Not with that many.

    • sliusarek February 15, 2017 at 1:52 pm - Reply

      Horses are not cars, they would scare themselves off, start rebelling and dancing around. Plus this is some heavy pressure there, horses are not strong enough to pull it off.
      And you are wrong about herd’s sizes. The one Rick and Michonne took out was not even 1/10 of what they had to deal with in No Way Out arc. And to compare, what we have now, the ocean of the dead, is waaaaaaaaaaaay bigger than the herd from NWO.

      So, there’s that. )

  3. Neutral-Grey February 15, 2017 at 8:47 am - Reply

    God. Sherry’s pretentious stupid I’m-an-ascended-background-character-that-thinks-I’m-important smile makes me want her dead more than I ever wanted the Governor, Negan, or Alpha dead. Her undeserved sense of arrogance is unbearable.

  4. MRGA7 February 15, 2017 at 9:54 am - Reply

    Rick is alucky man judging by the way Andrea was able to blow that horn.

  5. Mamadeadhead February 15, 2017 at 12:27 pm - Reply

    I loved this issue, it shows just how far everyone has come. Showing how easily they can take care of a horde and the help Negan gave Rick. I love the thing they have going on with the Rick and Negan relationship. Without him Rick would be dead. It’s interesting to see Negan speak about his wife and feelings.

  6. Bummer619 February 15, 2017 at 12:37 pm - Reply

    It was a great issue but holy shit at the end when Carl took a stand and showed signs of being a strong leader was awesome it shows real potential for him to one day lead one of the network communities which seems awesome.

  7. Hogg Head February 15, 2017 at 1:46 pm - Reply

    I hope that b/tch Sherry will receive a double-knife-penetration from Dwight and Negan… She is nobody.

  8. sliusarek February 15, 2017 at 2:14 pm - Reply

    This issue was GREAT.

    In that “Name your favorite character” thing, I’ve spoken about Negan being my best and why. Well, this issue only proved my understanding of Negan and I can give it a 5-star rating only because of that. And there’s so much more!

    The little chit-chat of Negan and Rick was pure joy. As Rick said, “this ship has sailed” and it is really satisfying to get something like this, at least a moment of trust between them. The scene not only showed more of Negan’s character, it also connected the “Here’s Negan” prequel and expended Rick! I honestly thought that there would be no progression and seeing new sides of Rick, that his story was told – I was wrong.

    Carl is really good. Lately he showed the potential to become a leader for the next generation of people, for times when Rick is no more.

    Eugene and Heath had a really good talk about them proving themselves worth and feeling less needed, when there’s “Ricks and Andreas”. It was such a sweet moment to feel for Eugene.

    The horn thing was also damn awesome. It’s one of the reasons why I love The Walking Dead – you can never expect what kind of crazy (it was needed, tough, `cause it really is a good way to draw away walkers) stuff is going to happen.

    A brilliant issue. Just brilliant.
    And another good thing – issue 165 is going to be in our hands in less than two weeks! Damn, I love this month. The show is back, 2 issues of the comic, the Megabox is coming out in March – love it, love it and again, love it! 🙂

    P.S. Please, get McFarlane Toys to release a figure with Andrea on a horse with the horn as an accessory. That would be just epic. 😀

  9. Reynaldo Saravia February 15, 2017 at 2:24 pm - Reply

    The reason why negan did what he had to do to rick and his group including Glenn was genius great issue but where is the adlard 2 page full scene masterpiece I have come to expect in evey issue I’m not complaning I loved that in the last issue we got 3 of them just sad there wasn’t one in this issue.

  10. Quin February 15, 2017 at 5:01 pm - Reply

    Annie and Siddiq are in Eugene’s house with that radio. Wonder how that’s gonna turn out for his little secret with Stephanie, hmm..

    • Trooperkev19 February 15, 2017 at 9:28 pm - Reply

      Yea this was a highlight of the issue for me, the review I saw didn’t even mention it. I have a feeling it will all work out with Stephanie being genuine, but if Euge had brought some bad guy community on them, man he going to be bummed!

  11. JimmyWalker February 15, 2017 at 6:28 pm - Reply

    This one was really crazy! I was shocked to see Rick and Negan actually BONDING! And seeing Rick’s face when he found out that he was relating to Negan was priceless. I loved the look of sheer shock on his face! I also want to see what becomes of Alexandria after it’s become overrun. I’m thinking that they’ll all just move and rebuild Hilltop. I’m also enraged to see the Saviors decide to swoop in and “clean up what’s left” as they put it. That’s just low to hit Rick’s crew while they’re down. I’m hoping that Dwight or maybe even NEGAN takes leadership of the Saviors ’cause they’re all just loose cannons waiting to go off! I was also really happy to see Carl taking some leadership over the Hilltop people in this issue! It really developed him more and showed him to be a born leader just like Rick. I also think Lydia is finally starting to truly connect with Carl and maybe there is something between them that she said wasn’t there a few issues back. I’m also wondering to see what will become of the Alexandrians discovering Eugene’s radio and if they’ll make contact with the person on the other end. I can’t wait to see what’s in store for issue 165 and what will become of Rick and Alexandria above all the things I mentioned!

  12. Michael.bridges February 15, 2017 at 7:48 pm - Reply

    Well, I really enjoyed this issue. I thought rick and negan made a great team, has he changed? Or is he just biding his time until he can get back at Rick? Only time will tell. I can’t wait until then next issue where rick and co will face the saviors based on next months cover.

    • Neutral-Grey February 15, 2017 at 8:46 pm - Reply

      I think time did tell. This horde is massive. He had enough chances to kill him. He could have left him behind when he fell. He could have closed the door on him when the horde was breathing down Rick’s back. There is so much chaos going on with the horde that this would be the perfect chance to kill Rick. No one could say he did it. No one could say without a doubt Negan was at fault. There’s an ocean of walkers. Some people have to die. Negan’s best chance was outside that door. If he hasn’t had Rick killed yet I’m thinking at this point he just won’t.

      • sliusarek February 16, 2017 at 7:01 am - Reply

        Just look, do you really think that Kirkman would spend time and effort making and expanding this storyline with Negan, giving him his own prequel story to explain him just to say “fuck you all, once a bad guy always a bad guy”? No. Absolutely no.

        Negan is not crazy. At least, not Governor-like crazy. He and Rick have the same level of craziness that is considered to be pretty normal in their world (since zombies and stuff). I don’t know what else he has to do, so everyone can relax their buts and not think like he’s going to betray everyone. His chat with Rick was the final nail that was needed to prove his motives and his character. Hell, he almost cracked no jokes during that talk! I remember him being so serious only twice: when Carl started crying because of Negan making fun of his eye-wound and in that Alpha moment… okay, I’m gonna have to say more, bare with me. 😀
        I just remembered how Negan was in his prequel: serious, all to himself and in thoughts. Like he said, all these deaths of random people he had to see, the death of his wife and leaving her unburried, loneliness – it all has gotten to him badly… and he started treating people like slaves, “tricking them into life” and etc. Being in jail – he realized everything and I just don’t understand how anyone can still think that he is going to do something.
        Negan is back to who he was.

        Altough, I am still thinking that Maggies is going to do something stupid when she sees him. Oh Lucille, give me strength to go through all this. 😀

  13. Trooperkev19 February 15, 2017 at 9:11 pm - Reply

    So, first of all, amazing issue. But yea, I feel like Negan dropped the ball on this one as far as gaining Rick’s trust. I mean Rick asks him what’s the worst thing you’ve ever done, and he says leaving his wife as a zombie. Are you fucking kidding me?! Negan brutally beat good people to death. And he got mad at people for dying? Are you kidding me?! LOL if anything this conversation show how evil a motherfucker Negan really is. I’m onboard with loving the character but when people try to defend his actions sometimes, I just roll my eyes! But yeah past two issues have been amazing just for the Rick and Negan stuff. So glad he is still around, and it was great to see him telling Rick why he killed Glen, even if he looked like an asshole in my opinion. I mean he told Rick to his face that he did it to protect them. Like Rick and Glen needed fucking protecting from the dead… I feel like Rick wan’t to leave Negan to the dead right now, but sees that he is way too useful. Then again maybe Rick bought these bullshit excuses, he did spare Negan in the first place. With all those “…” responses I wish I knew what Rick was thinking… Can’t wait for the next issue!

    • sliusarek February 16, 2017 at 7:25 am - Reply

      Dude, you apparently don’t understand the character and what is the meaning of all of it.

      And talking about excuses… well, Carl killed those Dale’s kids that he adapted. Was it needed? Those kids would hurt anybody? Probably. But why it does not make him “an evil motherfucker”? Because he is our main character? And why he did it? To protect everyone, right. The reason is the same.
      “He was just a teen”, you might say. Alrighty.
      Rick killed the prisoner that was helping to clear out the walkers, as far as I remember. Was it needed? Yes. It was the right choice to keep people alive.
      Every single community was working hard, not having any conflictis with each other or even planning to go to war until Rick and Alexandria showed up. Negan’s plan “kill one – make evetyone scared shitless of you, break them down – have peace and life” was working completely fine! Hell, the Kingdom was growing in numbers and Saviors never visited it. Hilltop was raising tomatoes and having enough supplies to give sometihng to Rick without crucial damage or even gathering it up – they just gave the most valuable resource. That’s how bad it was for them?

      Negan calculated everything, except one thing – that one day there will be someone who is not okay with living under someone’s thumb. Also some circumstances played bad cards and everything turned into war.

      As a leader you have to make hard choices and Negan got sick and tired of people dying around him (do read how he yelled onto some girl suspecting that she is going to die, too. It’s “Here’s Negan” stuff). It was a harsh plan, but they live in a harsh world filled with cannibals and zombies.

      Sure, Negan had his problems with ruling. He understood it while in jail, but calling him “an evil motherfucker” is just… I don’t know… too emotional? Not smart? Arrogant? Yup. All of that.

      Again, if he was such an evil motherfucker as you paint him, he could sneak to the Saviors, tell them to gear up and then, when walkers breach Alexandria, not help saving Rick’s ass TWICE in less than 30 minutes, but make it look like he died from the walkers or something and go to his compound, so he can take over of what is left. Simple as that.

      I’ll add even something more. Sherry is in control of this rebellion from Saviors. Well, Negan did call her a slut that only goes to those who have power. He said this to Dwight. And this is totally true, so he’d never have her uniting Saviors and being in charge of such an operation.

      You see, if I take your vision of the story – it all falls off and breaks. Only some old glue (“Asian glue” :-D) keeps it from total failure. But if you take mine, where Negan has changed – it all matches up, it serves his character, it proves many things and etc, and etc…

      • sliusarek February 16, 2017 at 7:28 am - Reply

        and that she goes only to those who have power*

      • Trooperkev19 February 16, 2017 at 12:59 pm - Reply

        I honestly believe Negan’s actions were way more evil than anything Rick has ever done, although Carl killing that kid was certainly one of his darkest moments. You say if Negan was evil he would do things like rally the Saviors or let Rick die. Except he decided he doesn’t want to do that. At the end of All Out War, Negan saw a opportunity in going with Rick’s way. I know that Negan is changing, but only time will tell if that lasts, which it very well might. I have read here’s Negan, and I’ve really enjoyed the backstory they are building regarding the reasoning behind his methods of ruling. But yeah, Negan brutally smashed in Glenn’s skull in front of his family and made jokes about it the entire time. One reason he is an evil motherfucker is he enjoyed it! The fact that we are debating this is a testament to the writing. Moral ambiguity is built into the character’s DNA. But I still think Negan is evil and most definitely a motherfucker!

    • Neutral-Grey February 16, 2017 at 4:15 pm - Reply

      Negan values strength above all else. That’s why he admires Rick. It’s why he loves Carl. That’s why he became angry with people always being so weak and scared to the point where he just saw everyone like that by default. To him, out of all the terrible things, he did, leaving his wife to rot was the worst because he didn’t have the guts to do it himself. Didn’t even have the guts to see her one last time after she was put down. He was too *weak* to even look at her again. This, I believe, is why Negan considers it the single worst thing he’s ever done. It’s the thing that hurts him most.

  14. mtoomb February 15, 2017 at 11:02 pm - Reply

    This might be one of my favorite issues of the series… at least the last year or so. Bravo for cramming so much drama and character development into one issue! If only the damn show could follow the same example, it’s getting pretty bad…

  15. jaysmusgrave February 16, 2017 at 6:30 am - Reply

    Is this arc titled, “The Courtship of Rick and Negan?” If so, I like where it’s headed!

  16. stormwaltzing February 16, 2017 at 9:29 am - Reply

    Another great issue, these last two have been amazing! I definitely want to focus on the main Thing happening here though.

    – NEGAN AND RICK. Their interactions, this ALLEGED Negan redemption arc, and what’s been going on with that. One thing I always loved about Negan and Rick is how, despite how different they are, how ALIKE they are too. I think Rick’s always known this, and has tried his best to not go down the path Negan has. They’ve both gone down very similar paths with the differences being the choices they’ve made in the positions they’ve been in. It’s a hard pill for Rick to swallow too, but I think even that’s for good reason. Because he can see how easy it is to turn into that, the more he riles against it the more he can avoid becoming it.

    As for Negan … is he changing? I think that’s mystery we truly won’t know the answer to until it’s 100% revealed one way or the other. And I love it. Even since Negan appeared in the series he’s been a great antagonist, and I think he’s written so well that moments like this make us question ourselves. Is he changing? Or is this some master plan he’s got up his sleeve? It’s honestly hard to tell and that’s exactly why I love it, because we’ve seen what Negan is capable of, but the Here’s Negan comics have shown us that despite everything, he’s still human somewhere in there too still. His moment burying Lucille is poignant I think, because it shows his human side, but we can’t forget that despite that, Negan is still Negan. He can still be Negan while we’re shown these softer, more meaningful sides to him, so it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s changed from the Negan we’ve come to know. It’s something I can’t wait for the answer for, because while I can see both outcomes possible, I won’t know which one until it happens. And I know I’ll be thrilled with either exactly because I love Negan’s character as a whole.

  17. Lefteris February 16, 2017 at 11:50 am - Reply

    This issue…. Carl being (kind of) in charge, motivating people to fight, well that was awesome!! Carl is my favorite character and I’ve been waiting so long just to see him bossing around! And the fact that Negan and Rick are in the same room for so long that they actually start talking, it was great. Negan talking about his wife.. i realy didn’t see that coming, i thought that Negan wouldn’t even mention her any time soon..

  18. QPR85 February 16, 2017 at 11:55 am - Reply

    I loved loved loved this issue!!
    I am loving the intense will they won’t they dynamic between Rick and Negan ( or Rigan for short-term ). As said before Negan has had chances to stab Rick / leave him for dead and he hasn’t. The talk they had made me believe in Negan like people Believe in Rick Grimes. I don’t think you need to read Here’s Negan to understand it but it does make this story come alive a bit.
    I have to say I think the friendship/colleague relationship is going to turn sour between Negan and Dwight when Negan finds out Sherry left Dwight for a lady. This may lead to Dwight killing Negan. I don’t think Maggie is going to have to worry about Rigan.
    I can no wait to see what happens when Rigan finds out about Stephenie that’s going to blow my mind finding out about that group. Great issue glad i don’t have to wait a month for the next issue.
    What the fuck am I going to do in March that has 31 days in it you know!!!!!

  19. Eslack February 16, 2017 at 3:40 pm - Reply

    Everyone is talking about Rick and Negan but can we take a second to appreciate how far Carl has come since the first issue? Being young Carl is still finding who he really is. It’s easy for him to change at such a young age and to be able to separate the good from the bad is such a strong trait for him to have so early on in life. Despite everything he’s been through he is still able to rise up and take charge when he needs to and in this issue he’s proved he’s a leader. To be that strong at such a young age I’d say he’s stronger than Rick or he will definetly be when (if) he reaches Rick’s age.

    As for Rick and Negan, I love the tension between the two. It’s almost as if they’re Rick and Shane, good cop bad cop. But like Rick and Shane only one can survive. If you stick two alphas in a pack they’ll eventually fight over leadership. Negan might seem like he’s trying to change but he’s still an alpha and Rick wouldn’t dare give up his position to Negan (at least not without a fight). Negan and Rick and two very interesting characters. They have their differences but they also have a lot in common. Rick knows this too and is likely fighting an internal battle with himself but he can’t forgive Negan for all of the horrible things he’s done. I can’t wait to see where this goes!

  20. Connor03 February 16, 2017 at 7:06 pm - Reply

    I think negan is being trying to trick rick and go back to the old negan sucking up to rick so much and making him feel bad and all that. I love how carl is following after rick as a leader

    • Neutral-Grey February 16, 2017 at 10:02 pm - Reply

      Why not just kill Rick then? There’s a point where you have to ask “what does tricking Rick even serve at this point?” The ocean of the dead was the perfect opportunity to let Rick die and have no one blame Negan. He didn’t take advantage of it. At this point tricking Rick wouldn’t really do Negan any practical good.

      • sliusarek February 17, 2017 at 12:07 am - Reply

        Just forget it, Neutral-grey. I think the people will never understand it. I mean, Negan could kill Rick waaaaay back in the story, he had lots of chances and opportunities… yet he didn’t. Now he does not, too. And people still look how to blame him.

        • Trooperkev19 February 17, 2017 at 9:02 am - Reply

          Rick is Negan’s biggest “ally” right now unless the Saviors are secretly trying to reinstate him as leader. Rick is Negan’s golden ticket and he has been growing his influence through Rick for a while now. Even if he were to betray Rick it still wouldn’t make sense for Negan to do it now even given the opportunity. Without Rick there he might even need to leave the communities and start over. I’m not saying Negan is going to betray Rick, I’m just saying that Negan not killing Rick now proves nothing and Rick still knows he is playing with fire.

        • Neutral-Grey February 17, 2017 at 9:23 am - Reply

          I mean, I do get where people are coming from kinda. Negan’s first impression is a huge one. Some people will not look past that because in real life I don’t think you’d ever really look past that. But in this world where a character who did something as terrible as Negan did is allowed to grow, it presents interesting psychological dynamics. I can understand *why* people don’t trust him. But I gotta say, at this point it doesn’t make much practical sense for him to be lying. I don’t deny that there’s a slim chance he COULD be. But it’s so illogical for him to have played the con this long that it’s definitely not where I’d put my money at.

  21. BarbaLucy February 17, 2017 at 1:45 pm - Reply

    Sherry did come into the story again at the right moment though. We have killed off all the bad guys ( except for Frowny McTwoKnives, who walked off into the sunset. and Negan, if he can still be considered bad.) As a matter of fact, I didn’t despise Alpha nearly as much as I loathe Sherry, so that makes her the top of the bottom of my like list now.
    But.. I am STILL Not convinced that Negan is sincere. I keep waiting for the ultimate WTF moment when he spins around and beheads his new pals. Just can’t get past that.
    Carl is amazing. He will be the next leader, I hope. Oh PLEASE do not kill him!
    Nice to see Siddiq mentioned in the ratings too 🙂

  22. Karen Shih February 17, 2017 at 4:47 pm - Reply

    DAMN, what a great issue! So great to see the entire ensemble in one issue: Carl taking charge at Hilltop; Eugene and Heath’s talk about usefulness; Andrea, Michonne, Maggie. Most of all, I’m loving this dynamic between Rick and Negan. I love that rumination about the expense of being alive, the toll of living. This was easily one of Negan’s most powerful monologues, fucks and all.

  23. KingDead February 17, 2017 at 8:44 pm - Reply
  24. Phillip Blake Lives February 18, 2017 at 4:30 pm - Reply
    • QPR85 February 19, 2017 at 3:03 am - Reply

      I did see this…….

      I’m lying I didn’t see shit when I looked at this I had to check the book for myself and there you are Beta top of the page middle pages.

      What a find and he’s near the front of Eugene and heath’s herd. This arc is getting stupidly intense, which is surprising given how I’ve had my mouth open since the beginning, and I have a feeling, whether he likes it or not, Beta is going to have a massive hand in saving Rick and the other survivor’s against the saviour’s.

      • Epic A March 1, 2017 at 8:13 am - Reply

        Oh, that sure is Beta huh? I look at the panel, and I don’t see Beta anywhere whatsoever. From what I can see, there’s just a whole bunch of zombies and walking flesh bags, which are both the same thing. Unless he lost his legs or something, he should not be on par with the height of the other roamers. He’s supposed to be around seven feet tall, and taller than Negan, so he should be standing out decently well amongst that herd, and I do not see any roamer there that is taller than one another. They seem to be all within the same height.

    • BASTET. February 25, 2017 at 2:55 pm - Reply
  25. boomerangfish February 18, 2017 at 6:01 pm - Reply

    Call me naive, but I believe Negan when he says he wants to help. I love how Mr.Kirkman said he hoped Negan and Rick would kiss. What a Valentine’s gift- and an unexpected one. I also love seeing Dwight, Eugene, Magna and Andrea in action on horses!
    I am also curious to see if Siddiq will uncover Eugene’s secret radio…
    I also have a letter that I sent in and I really really hope that it gets published!! I’ve been reading the comic for almost ten years now and this series means so much to me. Rest assured I will always be there to read more the day it’s released!

  26. Atsuko February 19, 2017 at 3:22 pm - Reply

    So glad Rick is not naive enough to trust Negan. Negan is trying all the tricks of the sociopath to garner his trust. Rick won’t fall it.

    • Dezbound February 19, 2017 at 4:33 pm - Reply

      What could Negan gain at this point though? Unless he reunites with The Saviors, in his mind, he’s on his own. He said he wants to live, so being on Rick’s side would be his safest bet. I’m not sure of his true intentions, but from what I can gather, the psychopath in him died down during his time in that cell… For the most part that is.

      • Atsuko February 19, 2017 at 4:50 pm - Reply

        He may still hold sway over the saviours who may bow to him as they see him?

        • Neutral-Grey February 20, 2017 at 7:13 am - Reply

          After years of being locked in a box away from a group that didn’t like him to begin with? A group trying to actively seize power for themselves? Right. Yeah, I think you might be a little off base. There’s a point where him “tricking” Rick becomes nonsensical. We’ve reached that point. He might be “swayed” into his darker pursuits again but at this point it all being an active lie honestly makes little to no sense.

  27. BASTET. February 25, 2017 at 3:05 pm - Reply

    You guys can believe Negan is reformed all you want. I’m not buying it. Negan is the type that feels killing would be just too easy when you can take more pleasure in fucking with someone’s mind & break them. THAT’S the Negan I know!!

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